All Things Marketing & Entrepreneurship with Ritesh Toshniwal

[00:00:00] Surbhi Dedhia: Hi Ritesh, welcome to the making of a thought leader podcast. It is absolutely my pleasure to have you on board today. 

[00:00:06] Ritesh Toshniwal: Thank you so much Surbhi for inviting me. It's my pleasure to be here. 

[00:00:12] Surbhi Dedhia: So Ritesh tell the audience about yourself, what you've done so far and what you are currently doing?

[00:00:20] Ritesh Toshniwal: Sure. I'm based in Singapore, been almost 18, 19 years in Singapore. I have a family here, my wife and two lovely boys. Of course, I have a cat as well. In fact, the cat is spending most of the time with me when I'm at my desk at home.

[00:00:38] Surbhi Dedhia: Oh is the cat a participant of our podcast today?

[00:00:41] Ritesh Toshniwal: The cat is not here. I've locked it out of the room. Oh, otherwise it'll start moving around the laptop and asking for some attention. I just moved him out of the room for today. So a little bit more about me as a professional. So I am techie turned marketer. I used to work in Amazon web services till December, 2020 in B2B marketing space you know, marketing their cloud to enterprise companies in Southeast Asia.

[00:01:11] Ritesh Toshniwal: It was quite a good experience. Opening doors for AWS in enterprise space. Our business grew five times when I was there, our total revenues and even the team size sales team size grew five times within that timeframe. So it was quite a tremendous growth that AWS had seen and taken a kind of a leap ahead of its competitors in the enterprise space in Southeast Asia.

[00:01:35] Ritesh Toshniwal: And, and I used to work with IBM before that marketing analytics, IT security solutions as well as storage solutions. I worked in different regional roles, APAC, Southeast Asia. And like I said, I like to call myself as a techie turned marketer. I'm comfortable with technology. I can go a few clicks down when it comes to any new technology as well.

[00:01:57] Ritesh Toshniwal: And that's where I try to, bring different perspective when we are discussing any technology. It's a different perspective for, in terms of marketing, as well as bringing my experience as a software engineer. I am also part of a startup investment fund. I was a founding member of it in, we started it in 2015.

[00:02:19] Ritesh Toshniwal: It's called Thinkuvate. After leaving Amazon, I took a bigger role in Thinkuvate. I'm a managing partner in Thinkuvate, and we are pivoting Thinkuvate to democratize investment in early stage startups and helping a lot of corporate professionals, you know, 15, 20, 25 years of experience to basically make themselves available to the startups, their experience, available to the startups as well as they, themselves learning from the startups.

[00:02:44] Ritesh Toshniwal: So we are creating the two way street for corporate professionals. And as my day job, I worked with a PropTech startup from Singapore called Homzhub . We are in a growth stage right now. It's a B2C helping high net worth [00:03:00] individuals with their property investments and asset management. 

[00:03:04] Surbhi Dedhia: Wow. If I had to say somebody who I know is multi-tasker and is a man, I think I will pick you up.

[00:03:11] Ritesh Toshniwal: I'm not good at it but I am learning a few ropes.

[00:03:16] Surbhi Dedhia: What a phenomenal experience. I can see in terms of your profession from Amazon you were there when it saw five times growth in terms of revenue in terms of the team size increasing. So it's really interesting. And if I can just go back to your Amazon days for a bit here, it was in B2B marketing.

[00:03:37] Surbhi Dedhia: Yeah. Were you on the B2B side and what you said in terms of Homzhub role right now is on the B2C because you are talking about individuals who want the concierge service for their properties. there is so much of digital adoption that's going on. So what are some of the trends that you are seeing between the [00:04:00] B2B or comparing B2B and B2C from your experience to your role currently? 

[00:04:06] Ritesh Toshniwal: Sure. So a clarification there, in terms of Homzhub we are pivoting into a property management platform. Basically we're building a platform that can help anybody with their property portfolio to come and manage their all property investments through one single platform. And the properties could be in multiple cities or multiple countries, and we've built a, it's a mobile first approach. So basically it's an app as well as a website.

[00:04:34] Ritesh Toshniwal: So, you know, the whole experience in Homzhub is B2C digital. And the experience in Amazon and IBM was a lot more B2B. And of course the world has changed drastically in the last couple of years. Right. But there are a lot of similarities of course, between the B2B and B2C. So there's few that I would call out.

[00:04:56] Ritesh Toshniwal: One is, you know, fundamentally marketing is still about [00:05:00] driving the funnel, so you're filling up the top of the funnel. You're progressing the prospects through the funnel and converting them into customers and clients. Right. Right. And of course, along with that counts, you know, all the PR the media coverage, the branding, all that comes with the same objective of basically building the funnel and driving customers down the funnel.

[00:05:25] Ritesh Toshniwal: Right. But in terms of B2B and B2C. Well, there's a lot of similarities. There's a lot of differences as well in terms of similarity. I see fundamentally, it's all about trust, right? Customers want to work with brands that they can trust. It's the same in B2B and B2C. We are getting a lot of traction in Amazon because AWS is really good at gaining trust of customers.

[00:05:50] Ritesh Toshniwal: We are like, you know, we are here for you. We are customer centric, are customer obsessed company, and whatever is needed to make you successful is why we are there. And AWS, the team would go really out of their way to help the customers.. Yeah, any help needed to make the customer successful, was the objective in the company, same in you know, in Homzhub that's what I'm experiencing.

[00:06:14] Ritesh Toshniwal: B2C is all about trust, especially with their property portfolio, which is like, the dearest of investment assets for any individual or any, family. So for them, trust is very important before they choose to work with Homzhub. Then we are fundamentally also solving problem in B2B and B2C.

[00:06:33] Ritesh Toshniwal: So unless there is a need and you can show them that you're solving a problem, nobody would want to work with you. Right. So that's, I think the other thing is it's a problem we are solving and marketing has to show that how we are solving the problem, right. I do think marketing and sales need to work really closely in the B2B. A lot more closely compared to B2C. In B2C a lot of the conversations can be, driven through the marketing engagement. So the sales engagement can be limited or manifests in a different way. So that is one difference I'm experiencing the way I would work with sales in in AWS.

[00:07:11] Ritesh Toshniwal: And IBM is very, very different from the way I work with sales in Homzhub. The customer journey. Also, the customer journey has to be taken care of in both B2B and B2C. Really, really important that you bring the trust, you show the customer how you're solving the problem, but if you're not able to smoothen the journey, you're not making it easy for them to adopt your solution. Then you, you will be a loser in both the situations, B2B and B2C. Then again, understanding of your segment, the targeting, you know, the, the target group, like we call it the TG. And the segmentation also is very, very important. I think B2B is a little easier compared to B2C. Because B2C, you know, with, because you're targeting people directly, there are so many ways to slice and dice the data and segment them and then personalize your offerings to those segments, or at least personalize the messaging to those segments.

[00:08:07] Ritesh Toshniwal: So that is where the complication starts in B2C compared to B2B and a lot of times you have to balance that you attempted to go down to the last level to personalize, but then you, we can't scale.

[00:08:20] Ritesh Toshniwal: And we, you know, you have to take the call that how deep you want to go and how personalized you want to give an experience. 

[00:08:28] Surbhi Dedhia: Absolutely. Yes. And you were saying something about messaging, 

[00:08:33] Ritesh Toshniwal: In B2B. I think, messaging is because there's less number of segments your messaging is to a certain level the volume is less. But in B2C, the volume of messaging and the customer is being in different parts of the journey. From marketing perspective, it becomes very complicated. In B2B there's a lot of sales involvement. So in the cycle, in the funnel, you will hand over to the sales and you will keep in touch and you will help the sales nurture.

[00:09:03] Ritesh Toshniwal: But a lot of the on the ground work is taken care of by sales in B2B, but in B2C, it's marketing, driving, you know, end to end journey in many, many situations. So that's where I think a lot more complication comes in B2C. 

[00:09:18] Surbhi Dedhia: This was so so in-depth and very interesting. Ritesh what you painted this whole landscape, the B2B versus B2C the messaging and the trust and all of that. In fact, trust is something that you know on making a thought leader podcast, we talk about it a lot because the reason I feel that companies should appoint executives or the business owners should build on the, their thought leadership.

[00:09:44] Surbhi Dedhia: To build the trust. I mean, you want to see who's the human behind the company what is the brand who are the people behind the brand, the human approach. And I think that line is clearly from what you're saying and what you're observing is blurring between the B2C and [00:10:00] B2B. The differentiation that everybody, all the companies out there, all the brands out there startup or midsize or large organizations should focus on building trust.

[00:10:10] Surbhi Dedhia: And so , what do you think about building one thought leadership? What is your thought on that?

[00:10:16] Ritesh Toshniwal: So, so there are two things when we talk about thought leadership, one is, it definitely is not everyone's cup of tea. So I will say that in fact, the pandemic has accelerated for all of us to digitally connect with our customers, with our, whole ecosystem, right.

[00:10:34] Ritesh Toshniwal: With our teams, with our customers, with our suppliers, vendors, everybody. Right. But I think at the same time it's not easy for anybody to be digitally savvy and build a personal profile in the digital space. Right? So my thinking is that every person has an individual brand of thought leadership that they can build, or the company can build a thought leadership positioning as well.

[00:10:59] Ritesh Toshniwal: So if the person is not comfortable and like, we talked about it last time, that,, in our circle as well, immediate circle, you don't always see that 10 or 20% of the people are the ones who really have the personality, where they are extroverted and they know how to build that aura for themselves.

[00:11:18] Ritesh Toshniwal: Right. But not everybody knows how to do that. And a lot of people are comfortable in one-on-one conversations over one to many conversations. So if you are not one of those who likes to do one to many conversations, then build a digital profile of your brand, you can build thought leadership for your brand, which is through a lot of different, assets that you create a lot of different channels that you use to share the assets and build a thought leadership for your brand, so that people still feel the trust to work with your brand if not you, 

[00:11:52] Surbhi Dedhia: I want to pick your brain on a slightly different note here, you said that you thought leadership can be built for your brand to build the trust that you want to [00:12:00] engage with your target audience. What about the human aspect?

[00:12:04] Surbhi Dedhia: How can thought leaders, does bring that human aspect? Because people buy from people at the end of the day. Tim Cook's following is much larger Bill Gate's following as much larger than their companies. Even if there are introverted people, have you seen any of those elements, in the B2B or the B to C side where people are bringing that human factor out?

[00:12:30] Ritesh Toshniwal: So I think you've asked the right question because I didn't mean to say that, you know, those who are introverted should not try to build a digital profile. In fact, this is probably the best thing that has happened. Pandemic some positive out of it. I believe every coin has two sides. The pandemic, the positive thing is there's a lot of people who are introverted can build their personality in the digital space and they can express themselves at their own pace and they can connect with people at their own pace in their own style.

[00:13:02] Ritesh Toshniwal: And this, like I said, right, more than 50% of the people are like that, or, you know, majority people are like that. So if you reaching out to somebody there's a high chance, the other person is also introverted. So there's a high chance that they will respond if you're genuine. So just being genuine is what I think is very important.

[00:13:22] Ritesh Toshniwal: So in fact, I do, advisory on the side from marketing perspective, some of the startups, as well as other companies. And that's the point. I try to bring that out, that, it's all about building that trust with the customers and also let the personality reflect in your initial communications.

[00:13:43] Ritesh Toshniwal: So don't go with a standard message across all your channels as an individual. When it comes to individual, take the messages, give it your own personal touch and then send a message, then connect with people. Because genuineness is what people are looking. 

[00:14:00] Surbhi Dedhia: Yes. You really hit the nail on the head here by bringing your authentic self. And I just want to summarize it that even if you're an individual running a company and you feel that I'm not very comfortable putting new content out and, putting my thought in a, in a piece of an article out, you can always pick up on brand communications that the company is doing already, but add your unique one line or two liner to it, and then send the message out so that people connect with you, who you are as an individual.

[00:14:32] Surbhi Dedhia: And you what's your thought on that message. 

[00:14:38] Ritesh Toshniwal: Yeah, 

[00:14:39] Surbhi Dedhia: This is fantastic because in the speed of things, right? Like everybody around that, you see the amount of communication that is happening today. Even on a single platform, such as LinkedIn, people advise like posts every day. Some people go onto fact saying that post every day, twice.

[00:14:58] Surbhi Dedhia: And how, as an individual contributor or even a startup, are you going to do be able to cope with that because you have other pressing needs and issues. And I think at some level, I really want to address that how can an individual, like a smaller setup as a startup can pace this piece of communication out to leverage on the quality versus quantity really..

[00:15:26] Ritesh Toshniwal: Yes, right. I, I would suggest a couple of ways that I'm seeing works for a lot of people, out there the white page syndrome, it's real right. Writing doesn't come naturally to a lot of. Yeah. Especially if you're, the mother tongue is different than English, then it becomes even more difficult for a lot of people. So my suggestion is for people who are really keen and it's very, very important for their business, that they need to build some thought leadership in LinkedIn, Twitter, and all that, there's a lot of really good content writers out there. A lot of content available out there, work with an intern, work with a college graduate or somebody who's just, doing MBA and let them write on your behalf. And then you edit it and post it. It's also an opportunity for the other person to learn from you because they are very early, they haven't even started their career.

[00:16:24] Ritesh Toshniwal: So to me, it's also an opportunity to help those people give an exposure. Working with other people is like, what is team collaboration? Like what does an organization look like? What it is to attend meetings, right. Professional meetings. So there's a lot of value you're giving to the other person. Right.

[00:16:42] Ritesh Toshniwal: And then from your side, you are gaining value because whatever you're getting, you're able to now post at a higher frequency than you could have done. 

[00:16:50] Ritesh Toshniwal: The other one is actually easier and faster to me looking at the topics that you want to follow, follow them, look at any, in fact, you know, the, some of the social media platforms are becoming so smart and intelligent.

[00:17:02] Ritesh Toshniwal: They give you you know, the most relevant influencers for those topics on those platforms. So follow those topics, you reach those influencers comment on their posts. Put your thinking out there? There's no right or wrong. And once you start commenting, you will see a lot of people starting to follow you as well.

[00:17:21] Ritesh Toshniwal: It's a lot of effort to put some time aside and discipline to, to be able to do that. 

[00:17:29] Surbhi Dedhia: That is very important.

[00:17:30] Surbhi Dedhia: All right. So what you said were these two points which are really good outsourcing. And the second point is participating when we say participating, it's participating into that domain, into that niche of an industry that you are in and communicating, sharing your opinion, because that is really sowing the seeds of becoming a thought leader in a particular area.

[00:17:53] Surbhi Dedhia: What I want to also share here is the, these are sowing seeds of bringing your individuality, but also building your tribe and community. And I want to pick your brains here on the ecosystem that you develop around you as a thought leader. Can you share some thoughts on that? 

[00:18:12] Ritesh Toshniwal: Yes. So Surbhi, I'll be very candid about that. I don't have a lot of experience in building communities, but I've built a couple of in my previous experience, I've tried to build communities around IT security.

[00:18:25] Ritesh Toshniwal: And I've tried to build after that, when I was doing the marketing for IBM's first cloud platform, which was called Bloomix, I was trying to build a community of developers at the time. And then in AWS, Amazon web services, I trying to build a community of enterprises, right? Because a lot of enterprises were taking risks in terms of going to cloud and enterprises don't like it. Why break , something that's working fine. So nobody wanted to move their data centers to the cloud. And they were all, playing that game of, let the others do it and I'll follow. In enterprise space that's a typical behavior. The percentage of innovators will be much less compared to the startup space in enterprises.

[00:19:03] Ritesh Toshniwal: So we had to build communities so that enterprises learn from each other. So that has been one of the underlying I would say principles or drivers for us. In all my four years at AWS that was one of the drivers in building the enterprise programs is always, how do we bring the customers together?

[00:19:21] Ritesh Toshniwal: How do we enable them to share their experiences with each other? And basically help build that community? Because we always felt that, you know, customers talking to customers is the best way you can sell. So you don't have to do the selling, you just making them meet and you take a step back and all your job is being done.

[00:19:40] Ritesh Toshniwal: So all our programs to have this underlying principle, like I said to enable them to talk to each other, spend as much time together without AWS being in the room, being in the picture and overbearing on all the communications or conversations or their connects. Right? In COVID times, we tried something different., because it was COVID and we couldn't have brought the community together, so we started doing some virtual activities to bring the community together. I was focusing a lot on building a community for data and analytics heads. So like chief data officers, chief analytics officers, as well as any other CXOs. Sometimes it this, the chief digital officer or the chief marketing officer who are driving some of these data and analytics initiatives.

[00:20:26] Ritesh Toshniwal: In this community together so that they can discuss what are their challenges with each other. And lot of this is very new to the industry as well. So whatever is coming from more matured markets, right? The learnings may not directly apply to our audience in Southeast Asia really wanted the Southeast Asian community to come together, discuss their challenges.

[00:20:46] Ritesh Toshniwal: We also learn from their challenges, how exactly to help them. And they also learn from each other. So we organized some of the round tables. I wanted to really make it a little more fun. So every round table, what we we did was we started sending them some Wine and cheese before the round table.

[00:21:04] Ritesh Toshniwal: Very informal way of discussing the professional challenges, but it works well. When people are relaxed, they open up and they don't build walls around them.

[00:21:14] Ritesh Toshniwal: When we started the session, we would, we would say let's just start the discussion with what's happening in COVID. Give us, one habit that you've picked up during COVID time that's very unusual of you. 

[00:21:26] Ritesh Toshniwal: So in fact, one of the CXOs that I remember, and that story has stuck with me. She was the CIO of a big organization. She was driving the data initiative at the time and she told that at, because she's at home, she's a mother of three children and also she was getting involved in the work at home.

[00:21:45] Ritesh Toshniwal: So she saw the challenge in like so many different, liquids being used for cleaning the floor for cleaning, the kitchen top and all that. She tried to come up with one solution, one liquid that cleans everything. And she said she was fairly successful in that she had a solution that was working across different requirements needs at home.

[00:22:05] Ritesh Toshniwal: And she was in fact, I don't know if it was a joke, but she said, I may think of commercializing. Wow. And she was enjoying that whole journey.

[00:22:12] Surbhi Dedhia: That idea is so interesting because, and we've seen it across, right? Most of these large organizations who would either fly to a single destination to do offsites are now doing all the things virtual and, what you brought around with the round table is completely humanizing.

[00:22:29] Surbhi Dedhia: And really, I think the entire human race has picked up something or the other very different, unusual that they will do in COVID times.

[00:22:37] Surbhi Dedhia: Right. So I think this is, this is really interesting to kind of absorb and think about building community. In adversity, building communities around you in even in the current situation where it's still very fluid. And, and once you build the communities, how do you engage them over a period of time consistently with your opinions, with your ideas that you are applying or that your solution that you are, or the problems that you're solving, with the solution that you offer as a business owner, as a executive in an organization, this is really good.

[00:23:12] Surbhi Dedhia: Talking about the current, I want to take you to a bit of a futuristic scenario. I want to ask you, what are the trends do you see from the marketers perspective? 

[00:23:23] Ritesh Toshniwal: Some of the trends that I I see is one is definitely skills. I see that, you know, the skills needed for every B2B, as well as B2C organization in terms of marketing skills, it's exploding, you need so many specialists who come with deep knowledge when it comes to digital marketing or even, you know, the other social media. Nowadays there's a nice terminology called growth marketing and it does mean something.

[00:23:50] Ritesh Toshniwal: So I do think that skills are exploding and the organizations cannot really afford to bring a specialist for each and everything. Right. And that's where you cannot outsource individual those work items, because it will become a really difficult task to manage them.

[00:24:08] Ritesh Toshniwal: So here's my , million dollar idea if anybody's actually thinking about creating it, but marketing department as a service. And this will be the future as remote working becomes possible and collaboration in online world becomes really smooth. Like from requirements gathering, to tracking through showing the outcomes, if all this can be done very smoothly, then I don't see a reason why marketing department cannot be outsourced as a service. 

[00:24:36] Ritesh Toshniwal: So I think that's where somebody who understands that what companies really need is a marketing department as a service. Then they will probably start building that end to end marketing service. 

[00:24:49] Surbhi Dedhia: Right. Right. You also are a consultant. . Will you share something about that? And why I'm asking you this is because is this trend that you are seeing of specialization in different aspects of marketing and a company is looking at these specialists as an enabler. Is this something that you are learning from who you are consulting with?

[00:25:12] Ritesh Toshniwal: Yes, exactly. There's a need for a generalist who brings everything together. And there's a need for specialists who actually, do the job, which is the nature or function of every department, right? Same is happening in marketing. Just that the number of specialists one needs is, , exploded, more specialists we need compared to maybe 10, 15, 20 years back.

[00:25:34] Ritesh Toshniwal: Right? So that's where, when I'm talking to companies, I feel a need where, they want more end-to-end. They don't want somebody to just come in and do execution because with execution, the, how do you tie the results of the execution back to the business impact? Right. There's a big gap in there.

[00:25:53] Ritesh Toshniwal: And I think that's where companies are asking, that, how does really marketing add value to my business? Where's the impact on my bottom line, or top line, and I think that's where the marketing department as a service, that's a way to say it. But what I mean is basically somebody coming in providing the end to end service where the execution is done by their own specialists or outsource to other specialists, but the person in between all the department in between, or the, the organization in between take ownership of driving the marketing outcomes that the business needs.

[00:26:32] Ritesh Toshniwal: The other trend I see is, around automation. We all know campaign cycles are become much shorter, right? You know, those three-month campaigns have now become daily campaigns. In fact, in Homzhub have also, we try things and we run them for a couple of days and see the traction.

[00:26:47] Ritesh Toshniwal: Then they say, okay, this is working with double down on. You know, and then change things that are not working right. We are in that mode, in HomeServe as well in B2C, but you know, these kind of campaign cycles are not sustainable if there's no automation in the process. So you need automation right from the, the capturing the requirements, why you're doing a particular campaigns to all the way to the execution and then checking the results so that you can double down on what's working.

[00:27:14] Ritesh Toshniwal: If you don't have the end to end visibility, then it's becoming, it's going to be very difficult to really see what, what works and where do you need to invest more. And what I suggest always is look for tools that are available. I mean, don't try to reinvent the wheel. Always. There's a big temptation to build it in-house, but there are so many good SAAS solutions out there that will make the whole collaboration and also the building the visibility of the process and also tracking the results. There's a lot of analytics solution that specialize in that. So work with them, work with these solutions so that, because you don't know what you don't know. So that's my other thing is automation is going to be the key in the future and as many CMOs or ahead of marketing's realize that and start automation. Now, I think they will definitely see that teams moving much faster. 

[00:28:07] Surbhi Dedhia: True, true. One of the things that I hear about from entrepreneurs and business owners is that everybody's talking about technology being a great leveler by that. We mean that the same technology is available for larger organizations, midsize organizations, and all the way to a person having an idea I want to start up something. Earlier in this conversation, you mentioned about your role at ThinKuvate and how you are evaluating startups and mentoring startups. So what do you see from a startup perspective in terms of adoption of technology and the application of technology, and also the second part of this question is how do you mentor people at the startup stage to build thought leadership. 

[00:28:51] Ritesh Toshniwal: Yeah. So in terms of you know, I'm, I'm with you, that's one of my favorite topics is the levelization or the leveler, right. Technology is democratizing the lowest level possible. And that's why we will see that all the fortune 500 companies of today, the companies are moving out pretty fast from the list.

[00:29:10] Ritesh Toshniwal: There was a time when they would stay in the list for 30 years, which went down to 20 years. And now it's like average is I think around 12 to 15. Okay. And this number will keep going down because there's new and new, companies coming on board who are pushing the established players out, and this is all thanks to technology.

[00:29:28] Ritesh Toshniwal: So my, my thinking is, yes, this will continue. The technology will keep evolving and there's a lot more innovation that's going to come from startups. I think this is just the tip of the iceberg that we see today 

[00:29:40] Surbhi Dedhia: That is very interesting. I think all along, we have spoken so much about what you do from your experience.

[00:29:48] Surbhi Dedhia: I'm interested to know what influences you to keep keep doing what you do. 

[00:29:55] Ritesh Toshniwal: So I think a few things, one is definitely I'm generally a very [00:30:00] optimistic person. So any situation I would always see positive out of it The innovation coming from startup, it improving people's lives. That excites me.

[00:30:10] Ritesh Toshniwal: I look at the innovation taking place, how it is improving the lives of the, the, the poorest of the people, the bottom of the pyramid. That is something that, for me, if I had the means, I would put a lot of energy and time in building solutions for the bottom of the pit and helping them come out of the negative spiral. I do believe in that innovation coming from startups, and hopefully some of that innovation will rub on those bottom of the pyramid people as well. But otherwise, even people like us, our lives are improving so much because of all the innovation coming from startups. So I just love that what's happening around us right now. 

[00:30:49] Ritesh Toshniwal: I also would really want to build a, in terms of my specialization.

[00:30:53] Ritesh Toshniwal: I understand marketing. I understand how marketers think. And I understand how marketing solutions can help improve the lives of marketers. So I want to build a community of marketing heads and CMOs that can invest together that can mentor together.

[00:31:09] Ritesh Toshniwal: And that can basically help a lot of these startups become more successful and get the scale much faster than they would otherwise. And this is something that is, driving me to build my network of marketers right now. 

[00:31:22] Surbhi Dedhia: Sure. Wow. This has been so interesting and as a fellow marketer, I know we connect at so many different levels. So this has been encouraging, inspiring for me to, take these questions and hear your answers on the show. So thank you so much. Before I let you go, I want people to connect with you. And so where can they find you? 

[00:31:43] Ritesh Toshniwal: They can find me on LinkedIn. I'm generally pretty responsive on LinkedIn and thank you , Surbhi, for having me. 

[00:31:49] Ritesh Toshniwal: Thank you so much for the opportunity.