Design your Leadership style with Enneagram

[00:00:00] Surbhi Dedhia: Hello Tracy. Welcome to the making of a Thought Leader podcast. It is so nice to have you here today.

[00:00:06] Tracy O'Malley: Oh, I'm honoured to be on. Thank you for having me.

[00:00:09] Surbhi Dedhia: Wonderful. So, tell us about yourself, what you do?

[00:00:13] Tracy O'Malley: It's funny because I never would've put myself in the thought leader kind of bucket had you told me this is where I would be 15 years ago. Um, but life has a beautiful way of taking the things you've been through and using them for something absolutely magical. And it was about, 12 years ago now that I had just turned 40 years old and I was in a career that I really didn't love.

[00:00:39] Um, I was really good at it, but it was soul sucking. It didn't feel like it had much purpose. I had teenagers at the time, I was through a divorce and some, uh, recession and financial stuff, and I was just like, gosh, is this all there is to life? Mm-hmm. And you know, at that time also my, my dad, um, was diagnosed with cancer and had a 12-day cancer diagnosis before he passed away.

[00:01:07] And it really kind of turned me on a dime like. Life is really too short, and I hate that cliche, but it was really, really true. And I kind of looked in the mirror at where my life was and although on paper everything looked pretty, pretty okay, um, I knew that I wanted to change the trajectory of my life and also my kids' life.

[00:01:28] So I decided to kind of take my life, um, to ground zero and back to the foundation, and I got a lot of help. My coping mechanisms weren't great. Um, I've pretty much used everything in my life other than drugs to cope with life and it wasn't serving me or my kids very well. So, I decided to get some help and um, went to rehab actually for all those things and put all my cards on the table to my therapist and I said, this is what I do.

[00:01:57] This is how I operate. This is how I react. This is how I respond. I don't wanna do this anymore. But I only know the way that I was taught, told and modelled. And after 40 years, you're pretty conditioned a certain way. Yeah. So, I put all the cards on the table and it was day two and she's like, hey, I want you to take this Enneagram assessment. And I used some colourful language. I'm like, I don't want to do that. I was a little spicier than that. I said, I don't wanna do that. I don't need a label.

[00:02:31] I don't need some test. I'm telling you what is going on in my life. I need you to help me with that. And she is spicy as well. And she said, my dear, your best thinking has gotten you here. And this actually might help you get out of the box that not only the world has put you in, but you've also put yourself in.

[00:02:51] And I was like, well, you've got a point there. And so, uh, we did the Enneagram assessment. I was originally mistyped, but when we discerned that I was an Enneagram eight and the whole thing about the Enneagram, I'd never heard of it before. Mm-hmm. This was 12 years ago. Um, it really gave me this roadmap to understand myself at a deeper level.

[00:03:14] The motives behind what I did. Like it was very evident the things that I did, how I operate, how I behave, but I could never get to the root of why that was. You know, I've used things like, well, I'm Irish. Well, you know, I was raised in alcoholic home, or you know, all the things. I'm the oldest child. I'm an Aries.

[00:03:32] Like, all those things I had used in the past, but those were more behaviour driven. Rather than, who am I at my roots? Mm-hmm. And what the Enneagram provided for me was that kind of roadmap to my soul with compassion. Right, because I think so often when we think we know who we are, we usually bring the cloak of judgment on top of it.

[00:03:53] And for the first time in my life in 40 years, I met myself with compassion and grace. And even though my track record in certain areas of my life weren't great or shining, um, this framework and this system and this beautiful tool, um, showed me a way out with love. Once we can do that for ourselves, we can then do that with other people first my kids in a way that I never had before.

[00:04:18] I also recognize that I spoke a language that they didn't understand 'cause they're wired very differently than me. So, it gave me framework to understand them and communicate with them better. Changed our house overnight. Um, and then I started taking it into business. I switched up careers and started taking it into my own business, in the way that I led.

[00:04:39] Giving me framework to speak to anyone, not just people like me. And now, today, I help Fortune 50 companies like Google, Amazon, John Deere, um, small entrepreneurs, um, you know, smaller businesses, families, bringing this beautiful tool into these kind of group settings so that we can first understand ourselves and then better understand each other.

[00:05:01] Because when we do, see, hear, understand and value everyone and what they bring to the table with compassion, with empathy the things we can do in this world are, um, nothing short of magical and beautiful. So, like that's, that's a snippet of the last 12 years. There's a whole slew more.

[00:05:19] Surbhi Dedhia: I, I think it's a brilliant, transformative story. I use this word transformative or transformation because everybody today is looking for that one thing that can transform them to the next level.

[00:05:30] And in your work with your Fortune 50 you work with leaders in these organizations to help them know themselves better. Is that, is that what your, your role is now?

[00:05:42] Tracy O'Malley: You know, lead leadership starts at the top.

[00:05:46] Mm-hmm. Right. And I, I love to take the person that is like the decision maker, the visionary, um, the person that's leading the ship because if they're not kind of on board with this, me just coming in with their team, seriously, we're just putting a band aid on it. And, and I love the word transformation. I think we live in a world where people want it so desperately and we can see like the quick transformations in a picture or a, a TikTok video. And you know, that information doesn't equal transformation. Yeah. It's the integration of the information that equals transformation. So, when I'm coming into a team or organization that even though they're doing great, obviously, um, there's turnover, there's um, conflict, there's lack of productivity.

[00:06:33] And when the top leader or the leader in charge of a group can understand how to motivate and communicate more effectively with their people there is less of that. There is a more passionate Expression when they get to their job or what they do, um, and they feel like they're part of something.

[00:06:53] When people feel part of something, they're more likely to go the distance with you. That's right. Right. It isn't always about the pay check. It really, really isn't, quite honestly, most people stay, where they feel like they can grow and they feel like they can be understood. Right. And with this tool, with leadership, it's, it's been really cool to see the humble leadership of CEOs on down, when they say, yes, I'm willing to walk this journey with my people. I mean, it's very transparent and vulnerable. But I think that's where we, we find connection and we can do really beautiful things in business.

[00:07:30] Surbhi Dedhia: That's so wonderful.

[00:07:31] On your website, I saw a very interesting line lead, love and, live by design, not by default. And that caught my attention because not only it's very smart wording, but also it is a very powerful message that a lot of times we settle for default. In fact, you also earlier mentioned on paper, your life looked beautiful it was default, but then you chose to design it differently. And I think, uh, there is something more to it than just a beautiful line. I would let you share with the listeners how they can design their lives and not live by default.

[00:08:09] Tracy O'Malley: I think when we're living by default, um, a lot of it is instincts and reaction to what's happening around us rather than from this internal intuitive knowing, right? Mm-hmm. And the internal beautiful soul design in which I believe we were all created, right? But we're dropped into family, systems, schools, cultures, organizations where we're more conditioned to operate by default into like the environment and what's expected of us. And although like me, like many of you listening, that has worked out okay. When you start to get up there and age and start to look at life and you realize you have less left than you've lived, you really start to put things in perspective. And if you're a parent watching your children grow up and repeat some things that maybe you don't love, that you know down the road may not serve them well.  Understanding who you are will allow you to live more by your soul design. Not just in business and not just in our homes, but in every area of our life. And when we're not just reacting by default to all these areas in our life, we have a lot more energy and vitality. I'm healthier today than I was and all of that is because I am operating by who I was always designed to be right without default pattern. When we operate by default, it's to survive. It's not necessarily to thrive. And when we're operating in leadership in love, in just basic living by default. That's, that's not truly being who we are. And then, you know, you may wake up one day like I did and like, who the heck am I and what am I here to do?

[00:09:50] And what is all this for? And with the framework of the Enneagram, it allowed me to know who I was at a soul level. And although, how I show up, here on a podcast and how I show up talking to my kids and out, you know, with the CEOs of companies like Google and Amazon, I'm still the same person and I don't, I'm not altering who I am at all.

[00:10:15] Now, how I express it might shift a little bit depending on who's in front of me. But at the core of who I am, I'm not compartmentalizing myself so much and I. I think especially as high achievers, which I know if you're listening to this, you are a high achiever and are inter interested or are part of thought leadership.

[00:10:35] I think that we've been conditioned to compartmentalize so much and that's exhausting. Yeah. And so, I'm living by the design of who I was always supposed to be. Um, with a lot of wisdom though, compassion and a lot of humility and openness to learn from people who are different than me, which was something very new to me. 'cause I was like, if you don't think like me or you're not motivated like me, I judged you. Hmm. I did not intentionally and not always consciously. Right. And I think even in thought leadership, we can do that if we're not careful.

[00:11:07] Right. So having a framework and a system that allows us to kind of not put people in a box or label them, but to have a better understanding of how other people, including ourselves operate and how we're motivated and how we fear and how we act under stress or by default. Um, right. Especially as a thought leader, you can help pull them into growth and transformation.

[00:11:31] Surbhi Dedhia: Yeah, that's very true actually. And the leaders, even if it is a manager who's leading a team, I feel the leaders are under so much pressure all the time because they have to manage a team. They have to lead the way, all of that. And I feel at that point of walking a tight trope. It's just, so much pressure that we forget to connect with ourselves. What you shared is such a shift in perspective because if you are going to compartmentalize, like Who you are, when you go to work, who you are, when you go back home, if you're going to be so many different people, of course it's going to exhaust you, uh, on top of all the other noise that is out there in the world to, uh, read and absorb, isn't it?

[00:12:12] So I think that's a very, very valid point that you made, and I think it is something that we must all be aware of.

[00:12:19] Tracy O'Malley: Yeah. And you know, I think that I, I did this as a mother Uhhuh. I did this. As a leader in my previous career that, like you said, um, walking that tight rope of expectations, I thought people like what I needed to maintain and not screwing up and having to be close to perfect.

[00:12:40] 'cause if you're in a leadership position, whether it's in your home or out in the world, there's this pressure. But what I learned very quickly and. Using this beautiful tool allowed me to give myself more grace, is that the best leaders in my home and out in the world are the ones that humbly know they don't have it all figured out. Hmm. And vulnerable enough to show the cracks. Like I, I don't have it all figured out. And as a parent, as a. Leader out in the world. The reason why I have the credibility and trust I do today is because of that vulnerability. And I think the best thought leaders that you like, that you follow, that you trust, that you find credible are the ones that say, you know, I don't know everything and these are my blind spots that I will always have to watch out for.

[00:13:30] It doesn't mean that I didn't do things. The best leadership I could show was that vulnerability and the impact that I've been able to make in my home and out in the world. And that translates into, you know, finances and my health and my relationships and my friendships and the support system around me.

[00:13:50] All of that translated into escalating and transforming all those areas. The more transparent and vulnerable I was. I never thought that was possible. I, I, that wasn't taught, told and modelled to me. Even in the world today it's very curated. Mm-hmm. And if you really want to make the impact that you know, you're here to make, um, transparency and vulnerability are required, which is not my Favorite thing, but I know it's required. With great reward comes great responsibility, right? And to who, which is given much is required and, and to be the thought leader. Like you said, nobody calls themselves that, but you know when you're making that kind of difference, this is what's required.

[00:14:33] Surbhi Dedhia: That's really powerful and thanks for sharing that. So how, how can we adopt that? Like, what are your top three, four ideas that we can do in our daily lives to impact and be, be more aware of who you are? What can we do to do that?

[00:14:51] Tracy O'Malley: This is why I love the Enneagram. It's so funny how I came into this beautiful tool kicking and screaming, like wanted no part of it. And now here I am, 12 years later, educating millions of people with it. Um, and it's one of those things where like, you can know about the Enneagram, but if you don't know how to use it, It's just a cool thing, right?

[00:15:12] So getting typed properly is really important. Most of the online assessments are inaccurate but once you have the right information, once you have the right information, you can use it like a system and tool. When I understood what was at the root of everything that motivated me, when I was triggered, when I was angry, when I was compartmentalizing, I could go back and reverse engineer and understand why and when we understand the why behind it, right?

[00:15:37] Simon Sinek talks about, knowing your why. When I understood why certain things upset me or certain things inspired me or motivated me, um, I could streamline that a little bit more effectively when I understood what my core fear was in any situation. Even when it looked a little different, when I understood what the core fear was, instead of defaulting to my reactions, I could compassionately, problem solve, critically think. Mm-hmm.

[00:16:07] Use stronger emotional intelligence. So, like, first having that information and not judging it. Yeah. Um, was, was is the first thing.

[00:16:17] Surbhi Dedhia: I think there's no right or wrong, basically,

[00:16:19] Tracy O'Malley: And it's okay. And you know, my blind spot is different than yours. Mm-hmm. And your gift is different than mine. And they're both equally important and valuable.

[00:16:29] And when we can find that grace for ourselves, then we are more open to other people's perspective. 'cause we're not like hiding behind the facade and our compartments all the time. I think like the best leadership comes in compassion and connection. Mm-hmm. And if we're not giving that to ourselves, if we think we're out doing that in the world, we're really not.

[00:16:52] We're, we're manufacturing some things. So, I love this framework to be able to kind of bring me back to home and back to my Divine Soul blueprint. Um, so that's the first part. And when you catch yourself being human, because we are, I don't care how much personal development you do, I don't care how much you listen to Tony Robbins, he's amazing.

[00:17:14] I don't care what you do, you're still a human being. Things in life are here to test you, right? They are. And it's what you do with those tests. How you respond, not react, right? This is the thing of living by design rather than default responsibility means the able to respond, right? And when you have your understanding of who you are and you're not just in default all the time, um, this is where you can make bigger impact for yourself and others.

[00:17:44] So when you're talking about like what you can do, it's having information that lets you know who you are. Mm-hmm. And if you're resistant to that, know that I understand. I know like you might be listening thinking, well, I'm more than just a type or a personality. And that's absolutely true. Absolutely true.

[00:18:02] But you wanna be thriving. You don't wanna just be surviving. And, and most of what we're doing right now is just res reacting to life. Um, and when you get to the place where you can respond and, compassionately do so for yourself and others. That's when, you will find yourself at peace fulfilled with passion, with purpose, with productivity, with profits, um, all So, across the board.

[00:18:28] Surbhi Dedhia: Right. All right that's, that's quite a landscape that you've painted there in terms of, what you can do and, successfully leading people means a lot of self work, I believe. Right? Like I'm sure in, your role in the corporate role or in the business leadership wasn't taught in school.

[00:18:46] So when you land up in a job and you go up the rung, or when you, you found a business and you are suddenly having to now not only learn what you don't know, but you also have to manage a team. Um, you just go to your default. Right. And I feel a lot of times, uh, we don't know who we are internally or as you said, like what triggers you or what, what kind of motivates you.

[00:19:14] When people use these tools, they're better prepared to face their lives. What I'm always intrigued about though is that if I take an Enneagram test today, does it mean that I'll stay the same type throughout and does it mean that I'm that type of personality be whatever changes come in my life?

[00:19:34] Tracy O'Malley: Yeah. Here's, here's the thing, I do believe that we're wired a certain way and but then we're dropped into situations where the expression of who we are absolutely can change.

[00:19:45] Mm-hmm. Right. How I expressed myself 15 years ago looks very different than it is today. However, the motive and the fears behind it absolutely are the same. Right. But how I express that absolutely can change. And that is growth. And, like what you said, like learning leadership, you can learn all day long, but it's a muscle that you build, right?

[00:20:07] Yeah. And the only ways we build muscle is by actually flexing it and adding resistance to it. I often say like sometimes who we are and our personality isn't always the right tool for the job. It doesn't change how we're motivated or how we fear, but how I express, I have to know like coming in hot as an eight we're very intense. That isn't always the right tool for the job. So, I have these other components that are attached to my Enneagram type that allow me to still be who I am, but kind of express it a little bit differently so that it can be received. Right, right. But I'm still motivated the same way. I'm still fear the same way, but I don't wanna just compartmentalize, myself so much where I can only talk to people who are like me because that created divide. It created divide out in the professional world. It created divide in my friendships and that felt very lonely. Hmm. It really did. So, no, we don't change necessarily, but the expression of who we are absolutely can. And when we understand the other components that are attached to us, they're like having tools in the tool belt.

[00:21:17] So when I know I can't lead with my eight intensity, I have these other kind of tools that are connected to me that I'm not motivated like that. 'cause I'm connected to a seven. Mm-hmm. In some way, but I'm never motivated like a seven. I'm raising a seven. So, she's become one of my greatest teachers on how to use that part of my framework and that tool.

[00:21:37] I'm not motivated like her. I don't fear like her, but when we understand the other kind of levers, we can pull to support who we are at our core. That's when we can't speak to everyone, right? It's why I can work with a, a more empathetic, introverted leader versus an intense, fiery person. I can work with anyone.

[00:22:03] I can speak to anyone today 'cause I know what levers I can pull, accordingly. Still doesn't change who I am, and I know how I can deliver that intensity in a way to somebody like my son who is more empathetic. I'm still intense. Yeah. But the delivery of it and the expression of it is, is given to him in a way that he can receive it.

[00:22:23] So yeah. Um, that's the beauty and understanding, not just your type. That's the first part. But understanding the tools that are connected to your type so that you can be a more effective leader.

[00:22:34] Surbhi Dedhia: Right. And in Enneagram, there are nine personality types. Is that what you mentioned?

[00:22:39] Tracy O'Malley: There's nine basic kind of ways in which we see the world. All nine different types have a different perspective. Um, a different measuring stick by what is most important to them. Um, their default emotion and their core fear. So, you know, think about it this way. I mean, we have bazillions of people out in the world, but if you can kind of understand, there's nine basics that eliminates a lot of this. Trying to figure people out, right? It's not to label them, it's not to, you know, box them in or tell them who they are. If you've ever experienced this, when you're talking to somebody and they say something like, gosh, it's, it's like you read my mind.

[00:23:20] Or I just met you and it feels like I've known you forever. Yeah. You are communicating in a way that they can. You're understanding what motivates them and what their core fear is. And I know when I land with that, credibility and trust is built. And when credibility and trust is built, right, we can transform, we can transform.

[00:23:40] Surbhi Dedhia: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that's very much needed in business world today, the building of credibility and trust.

[00:23:46] Tracy O'Malley: Yeah, exactly. And you know, I, I've seen areas in my life where I thought I was showing up authentically. I. It was more manufactured. And you know, when I realized that I don't judge myself, it's, you know, I didn't know any different at the time and I was on learning a lot of stuff.

[00:24:04] So if that's you, you know, be gentle with yourself. And it's funny because I. I still, I mean, I have an online business as well. I still have to show up online. Um, but the way that I do it today is very different than I would've done it 10 years ago. And even though it's maybe not as present and not good marketing all the time, it's true to who I am and it's proven to be working out more than okay for me. Um, and so understanding who you are, can absolutely help you show up more authentically and in a way that works for you and is sustainable and profitable and fulfilling and exciting. That's amazing. That's freedom.

[00:24:46] Surbhi Dedhia: That's freedom Exactly.

[00:24:48] This has been an amazing conversation so far. You shared about, some steps, how people can live their lives by design. What are the immediate steps that people can take to actually apply those steps in their lives?

[00:25:02] Tracy O'Malley: So, if you've heard about the Enneagram or you're new to it, you might Google it and find all these online tests, right?

[00:25:10] I just want to say, if you go take an online test out there, they're inaccurate about 65 to 70 percent of the time. And if you're going to be using this information.

[00:25:19] Having the correct information. So, you know, like exactly your framework, it's going to be really important. And that was the problem I had for so long with the Enneagram. It's like, well, if somebody just goes takes a test and says, Hey, I'm a 9, right? But I'm giving you the framework for a 9, but you're not really a 9.

[00:25:38] I'm sending you in the wrong direction. Think of it like a GPS system, right? You got to have the right. Right coordinates in order to go the right direction and so that's why I developed my blueprint and it is an assessment, but it is a more in depth assessment and it kind of asks you, you took it, um, it asks you like 145 different questions and it feels like you're answering the same question over and over and over again, but it's kind of hitting you from all different directions to really not just understand your behaviours because all those other online assessments kind of just.

[00:26:12] Focus on the behaviours. My assessment gets to the motives a bunch of different ways. And so, my assessment is accurate over 95 percent of the time. So, if this is a tool that you want to use to live by design and not default, you can do that through here. And then once you take that assessment, I review it and I give you a blueprint.

[00:26:35] It's basically your sole blueprint, a handbook with All the information, not just your type, but all the other kind of types attached to you. Like I was talking about, like, knowing how to pull in these other tools. And so not only do you get accurately typed, but you'll have your own little handbook. You can start actually integrating this in your life, not just taking the information in and saying, yeah, that's cool.

[00:27:00] But it's, it's actually a handbook on how to use this information in your life. And you can go do that at my website. Um, it's incredible. I do it with teams and organizations as well. Um, we do workshops within teams and organizations, but I usually say, you know, leadership starts with you and leaders go first, so,

[00:27:22] Surbhi Dedhia: that's wonderful. You know what I'm going to do, as a gift to all the listeners who've been listening throughout the podcast and up till now, I'm going to put in the link on in the show notes and they can access it using the code thought leader.

[00:27:36] Tracy O'Malley: Yeah. And you'll get a little special gift and discount by doing that as well, which is amazing. Um, yeah, it's, it's powerful information. And when you integrate it, integration is where transformation happens, but everything that you need is in that handbook and in that blueprint. Um, it's just what you decide to do with it from here moving forward. .

[00:27:58] Surbhi Dedhia: I, I'm curious about, for example, I just found out that I'm a type seven, then, does this blueprint actually give me, how do I work with a one or say a six or and eight, does that give that view as well?

[00:28:14] Tracy O'Malley: The, the blueprint is more about you and how you show up and how others might receive you. Now I do group workshops, not just like I do group trainings where you can learn about the other types within that. I also have a podcast where I talk about working with other types as well.

[00:28:33] The more that you understand yourself, you can start integrating like, how do I work with a one? And, and the way that I think people learn best is through group, through group work, like seeing a real-life person as that type. Right. I'm raising a 2 and a 7. I'm like, oh, my gosh, like, that was the best training of all is living with them.

[00:28:55] And it's why, you know, I can work better with twos and sevens because I have very in-depth experience and working directly with them. And one of the biggest ahas I had when I was first learning about me as an eight was understanding how others might receive me and my responsibility in that. If you're a leader and, and you want to make the impact, you have a responsibility of your energy that you bring to situations. Whereas before I was like, well, if you can't handle me, then too bad. Right? Like that says more about you and that's not leadership, right? The blueprint's more about you.

[00:29:33] Tracy O'Malley: When you identified yourself as an eight, and then you had a work around of how you show up. Did that mean that you have to also use a different kind of language? Like you said, you had to explain yourself to people that look, uh, I, I'm saying this, but what I actually mean is this, like, does that work that way or?

[00:29:53] No, honestly, like it wasn't so much as explaining myself. It was showing up, kind of operating differently. Like when we, 'cause if we explain ourselves, it sounds like we're making excuses. Sometimes it's like, well, you don't understand me, but like it's almost saying, well, that wasn't my intention. Yeah.

[00:30:13] Sometimes the most well intended we are doesn't stick or doesn't land. Right. And so, this willingness to understand that there's 8 other different languages and motives out in the world, and you'll know when you're not, I mean, you know, your people that are like you right? Like, I know when I'm with another 8, how I can talk, but the 8 other kinds of people out there don't translate the way that I do.

[00:30:40] So my willingness to understand the other languages within the Enneagram, instead of explaining myself. I could cater to that motive and it doesn't change who I am. It's just being more thought out in the way that I communicate with certain people and when, when you, that there's a lot less explaining I have to do.

[00:31:02] Now I will say like when I'm under stress or, you know, my biggest fears are being, uh, poked a little bit, which I'm in a season of that right now. I tend to kind of operate a little bit differently. And. You know, the people that are close to me, I am explaining what's happening. It's not as an excuse. It's more like I know that I'm kind of operating in a way.

[00:31:26] That's different than what you expect of me. This is what's happening for me. Not as an excuse. I'm sharing this with you so that I can receive support from you, which is hard for me to do. Where in the past I would kind of just cocoon and then people would have to guess what was happening. So I'm letting them know what's happening, not as a cover or as an excuse or as like, it's too bad.

[00:31:53] It's more like this is me. Vulnerably this is operating in fear in stress and we're human and we're all going to do that. And that makes me a better leader and it makes me more trustworthy and it creates a value exchange within, whether it's friendship, my partnership, business associates, even with my kids, that the more that I can communicate that first by living, but also, especially when I'm under stress, like, in a way, like, in the past, I would have said, well, this is just the way it is.

[00:32:26] I'm stressed. That's explaining ourselves is like, I'm feeling vulnerable because, uh, I am under fear and under stress because I am responding like this because, and I'm pulling out with these other tools within. And so it's, it's really cool for the people in my life. You know, cause I am kind of their go to person for this stuff.

[00:32:49] So when I'm in stress, they're like, Whoa, I'm like, yeah, I'm human too. I'm human too. But it's really cool for them to see live and in person, how I'm using this framework to navigate it and move out of it. And I don't stay stuck very long at all, but I'm still human and still will, and I still have blind spots.

[00:33:10] Right. Um, the more that we can operate, communicate and live that design. I'm not just speaking the design, I live the design and I'm showing that to other people. True. And that's great. Yeah. You walk the talk. I do. I do. It's hard. hard. True. It was much easier being ignorant, honestly, to all of that.

[00:33:33] Surbhi Dedhia: It was easier. Yeah. But then the cost of that is so high, and now with the design, you are able to kind of make it more fulfilling and valuable for everywhere you show up.

[00:33:46] Tracy O'Malley: With great reward comes great responsibility. And if you want the fruits of life, um, in business, in personal relationships, it comes with a responsibility of self awareness, of compassion, of empathy, of connection. It's all required. It's all, it's so hard. It's so, and it's worth every minute of it. Every minute. Okay.

[00:34:08] Surbhi Dedhia: That's wonderful. I think Tracy, we covered a such a large landscape here with so many things and I love the fluidity of this conversation. It was so easy. So, thank you for coming on the show, but before we, we end this conversation, I want you to share where people can get in touch with you.

[00:34:27] Tracy O'Malley: Yeah, um, like I said, I have a podcast called lead with the Enneagram and it's all things leadership. I talk about being in your home as well. I mean, because we're humans and we're 1 person and, you know, how we lead is fluid, right? Um, you don't need to compartmentalize that. Um, so that's a really great place to start.

[00:34:45] If this has intrigued you at all, I have over 350 episodes on that podcast close to a million downloads. So, people are definitely listening. Um, but if you want to go get your blueprint or learn more about me, you can go to Tracy O'Malley. com. Um, everything there is great. I'm also on Instagram. If you do that, uh, Tracy underscore O'Malley.

[00:35:06] Surbhi Dedhia: Thank you. And I'll also put all these links and handles on the show notes. It's easy for everyone listening to grab it once again. Thank you so much, Tracy. It was brilliant.

[00:35:16] Tracy O'Malley: Thanks for having me on.